Correcting Some of James White's Misinformation To The Public
by
Bassam Zawadi
Dr. James White, the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, engaged in a short discussion with Nadir Ahmed on his radio show, and in that discussion, he distorted the meaning of one of the Saheeh Bukhari hadith.
Also, in two of his debates with Shabir Ally (buy them here and here), he brought up certain 'Qur'an confirming Bible' arguments (ones that he most likely borrowed from his close buddy, the infamous Shamoun).
After listening to the show and the debates, I emailed James White and pointed out to him his faults and referred him to my articles so that he could educate himself.
I will present to the public the email discussion that I had with James White on these issues (not with his blessings, but at least with his permission, of course).
You will notice plenty of grammatical errors on my end, since I wasn't planning initially to make these emails go public, however what I am trying to say is definitely understandable.
Enjoy.
My First Email to AOMIN So that I can get in touch with James White
Well, my name is Bassam Zawadi, the owner of www.call-to-monotheism.com
I am a Muslim apologist, you can clearly see this by just looking at Answering Islam's updates and I am also currently co-authoring a book with David Wood, for we are debating the Prophethood of Muhammad.
I would basically like to contact Mr. James and inform him that he is spreading incorrect information about Islam and I would like to tell him why that is so.
If his email is private and he may not be contacted through the website, then I definitely understand that you must seek his permission before letting out his email.
However, if there is a way to contact him and this way is available to the public, then please if you don't mind tell me how to do so.
Thank you Sir.
James First Email Response
Mr. Zawadi:
Please feel free to explain where you think I am "spreading incorrect information about Islam." I surely have no interest in doing so, though, I have yet to meet the Islamic apologist who shares my concerns on that level, sadly. I continue to search for the Islamic apologist who accurately represents, and argues against, the Trinity. But I can keep looking! So please, let me know what your objections are.
Bassam
Dear Mr. White
I hope you are doing fine sir.
I want to say that I have enjoyed listening to many of your debates and you can check my purchase history from your website for the proof :)
Sir, I wanted to correct you on a couple of points if you don't mind me doing so. (there are other points, but these two for now)
First point I would like to correct you on is when you said to Nadir Ahmed on your radio show that Saheeh Bukhari states that only one person (Abi Khuzayma) knew of a Quranic verse. However, this is not entirely true in the way that you make it out to be and I kindly ask you to refer to my article over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/are_the_verses_from_surah_9_128_129_and_surah_33_23_falsely_added_to_the_quran_
Second point, is that I notice in your two debates with Shabir Ally that you try to argue that the Qur'an affirms the authenticity of your Bible. I have a whole series of articles that refute that over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_endorse_the_bible__
However, I believe that you have more specifically referred to verses that speak about the Quran confirming the previous scriptures (addressed here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_regarding_the_qur_an_being_a_confirmation_of_the_bible), of the Qur'an asking the Muslims to judge by your scripture (refuted over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_regarding_the_qur_an_ordering_the_jews_and_christians_to_judge_by_their_scriptures) and you mentioned the hadith about the Prophet putting the torah on a pillow case and respecting it (addressed here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_that_the_prophet_claimed_that_the_corrupted_torah_was_revealed_from_god and make sure to see my rebuttal to Shamoun on it as well)
In regards to the Trinity Mr. White; I believe that the arguments from unitarian Christians themselves are already sufficient. I wouldn't mind having a discussion with you on this topic though.
I like the way you outwardly treat Muslims in opposition to other Christians like Sam Shamoun (see here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/sam_shamoun__a_disgrace_to_christians_). In this way, we can have better relations with each other.
Christians need to understand that Muslims don't tolerate mockery, blasphemy and sarcasm towards our religion; however, we do tolerate and even praise objective and sincere criticism communicated properly with manners.
You take care of your self now.
Kind Regards,
Bassam Zawadi
James White replied back, saying:
Sir, I wanted to correct you on a couple of points if you don't mind me doing so. (there are other points, but these two for now)
First point I would like to correct you on is when you said to Nadir Ahmed on your radio show that Saheeh Bukhari states that only one person (Abi Khuzayma) knew of a Quranic verse. However, this is not entirely true in the way that you make it out to be and I kindly ask you to refer to my article over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/are_the_verses_from_surah_9_128_129_and_surah_33_23_falsely_added_to_the_quran_
This is an invalid URL. I cannot read your comments.
I can, however, read Bukhari:
6.509, "till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him."
6.510, ""A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari."
Now my Arabic is still on a basic level, but I am making progress, and I can read the Arabic of 6.509,
I believe the English translation provided in Bukhari is correct at this point, as it is asserting that Zaid bin Thabit did not find it with anyone but him, that is, Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari. If someone wishes to argue that the text existed in someone else's memory, etc., that is fine, but likewise utterly irrelevant, as those people were not consulted in the compilation work. Surah 9 reads the way it reads today because these words were found in the memory of a single individual. This is a key issue regarding the reliability of the recension/collation of the Qur'anic sources noted by Al-Bukhari.
Second point, is that I notice in your two debates with Shabir Ally that you try to argue that the Qur'an affirms the authenticity of your Bible. I have a whole series of articles that refute that over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_endorse_the_bible__
Once again, your embedded URL is defective.
I had assumed, Bassam, that your allegations of misrepresentation would, in fact, be issues of disagreement. I believe Sam Shamoun and others have done a fine job establishing the case, and I am well aware of the arguments in response. I find them anachronistic and flawed. If I said "All Muslims admit the Qur'an affirms the authenticity of the Bible," I would be misrepresenting Islam. But what I say is, "A strong case can be made that the Qur'an affirms the authenticity of the Bible." Surely the two are different statements, and since I can back up the second statement, it is not a misrepresentation. It is a matter of dispute. I would say that your position, aside from lacking the necessary support of the earliest centuries of Islamic history, eviscerates the very argument Muhammad attempts to make for his own prophethood in Surah 5, for example. So once again, this is not a misrepresentation.
However, I believe that you have more specifically referred to verses that speak about the Quran confirming the previous scriptures (addressed here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_regarding_the_qur_an_being_a_confirmation_of_the_bible), of the Qur'an asking the Muslims to judge by your scripture (refuted over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_regarding_the_qur_an_ordering_the_jews_and_christians_to_judge_by_their_scriptures) and you mentioned the hadith about the Prophet putting the torah on a pillow case and respecting it (addressed here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_the_argument_that_the_prophet_claimed_that_the_corrupted_torah_was_revealed_from_god and make sure to see my rebuttal to Shamoun on it as well)
Once again, all of your URLs are defective, but it matters not: you are simply saying, "Hey, these are issues of debate." Of course they are. But it is not misrepresentation to raise issues of debate. I obviously do not agree with you. I can make a case for my side, you make a case for yours. That is not the same as misrepresentation.
In regards to the Trinity Mr. White; I believe that the arguments from unitarian Christians themselves are already sufficient. I wouldn't mind having a discussion with you on this topic though.
There is no such thing as a Unitarian Christian, of course; that is like referring to Muslims who reject Muhammad as a prophet. No such thing, yes? What is more, that is hardly relevant to what I said. I said Islamic apologists misrepresent the belief they are attacking. I believe you may need to be a good bit more accurate in your use of terminology, Bassam.
I like the way you outwardly treat Muslims in opposition to other Christians like Sam Shamoun (see here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/sam_shamoun__a_disgrace_to_christians_). In this way, we can have better relations with each other.
Once again, your link is defective. But I honestly have no interest in reading attacks upon Sam from Islamic apologists. I have already been the object of the vitriol of the followers of Nadir Ahmed. I am sure as I do more debates, write books, etc., that there will be page after page of personal attacks upon me on the Internet. Sadly, this is nothing new.
Christians need to understand that Muslims don't tolerate mockery, blasphemy and sarcasm towards our religion; however, we do tolerate and evne praise objective and sincere criticism communicated properly with manners.
Bassam, my brothers and sisters in Christ are imprisoned, beaten, and murdered, by Muslims every day around the world. Muslims mock, blaspheme, and are sarcastic, toward the Christian faith daily, and I am not just referring to "radical" Muslims. I refer to imams and mullahs and Islamic leaders in Islamic countries. One of the main reasons I do what I do is to encourage those brothers and sisters who suffer under Islamic persecution. I believe Christians, who serve the one who called Himself the Way, the Truth, and the Life, are bound to speak the truth in love, even when persecuted for so doing. God is just, and justice will be done in the end.
Thank you for writing.
Bassam's Response:
Dear Mr. White
I would have to say that I am disappointed by the quality of your response despite your credentials and the opinion (which was pretty positive) that I already had of you before I attempted to contact you.
I will tell you why.
I can, however, read Bukhari:
6.509, "till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him."
6.510, ""A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari."
Now my Arabic is still on a basic level, but I am making progress, and I can read the Arabic of 6.509,
I believe the English translation provided in Bukhari is correct at this point, as it is asserting that Zaid bin Thabit did not find it with anyone but him, that is, Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari. If someone wishes to argue that the text existed in someone else's memory, etc., that is fine, but likewise utterly irrelevant, as those people were not consulted in the compilation work. Surah 9 reads the way it reads today because these words were found in the memory of a single individual. This is a key issue regarding the reliability of the recension/collation of the Qur'anic sources noted by Al-Bukhari.
I really wish besides answering back you could have insisted that I make the URL link work or have emailed you my argument.
The link is working with me. If it is not working with you then go to www.call-to-monotheism.com then click on 'Refutations Against Polemics' then click on 'Refutation to Other Misconceptions' then click on 'Refutings Arguments Made Against the Qur'an' then click on 'Refuting Arguments Made Against the Preservation of the Qur'an' then click on 'Quranic Variants' then click on the sixth link.
James, to read that line from Bukhari and argue that Abi Khuzaymah was the only person who had the verse in memory is incorrect. Read what Bukhari says carefully...
Saheeh Bukhari
Volume 005, Book 059, Hadith Number 379.
Narated By Zaid bin Thabit : When we wrote the Holy Qur'an, I missed one of the Verses of Surat-al-Ahzab which I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting. Then we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. The Verse was:
So clearly, Zayd already knew about a verse. If he didn't already know about this verse then how did he know that he must go out and search for it? How can he go out searching for something that he didn't know even existed if we were to assume that only Abi Khuzayma knew about the verse?
What Zayd was referring to was that only Abi Khuzayma had it with him IN TEXT FORM.
Furthermore, Ibn Kathir says...